This is an anonymous post from an Elpha member.

Offer Rescinded

Brandie121·Mar 10, 2023

Posted in:Offers

I had a company extend an offer on Thursday, March 9. I responded with a counteroffer later that day which they got back to me on Friday and said that they were firm on their offer. That same Friday I responded and let them know that I will think over the offer and get back to them early next week (which is this week).

Tuesday rolls around and I got an email saying that they had rescinded the offer. I asked them why and they said "We decided to officially rescind the offer because your asking wage was much higher than the position called for, and we didn't hear back from you by Tuesday afternoon which we thought was ample time to consider whether or not to take the position."

I just want to hear your thoughts because I'm so confused.

tiffanyyhchang·Mar 10, 2023

In the company's original email that they sent on March 9th mention the date by when they expected a response? My two cents - if they gave a deadline and they rescinded before that deadline, I think you might have dodged a bullet. Most companies expect people to negotiate, so rescinding an offer on the basis of a higher-than-expected counteroffer *alone* is at least a bit of a red flag.

Brandie121·Mar 11, 2023

In the original email sent it said "If you’d like to accept, we’d love for you to start as soon as possible. Please let us know what would be a good start date for you." even still. What if I needed two-week notice for my current role, would they also not have waited. You are right about the red flag!

Sierra166·Mar 10, 2023

It is hard to tell what may have led them to this decision but looking at the economic picture, employers might be less flexible and there may have been another person who asked for less money. You countered and they responded with a NO. That means the ball was not on your court but theirs. They already gave you a sign they declined your ask. You had to accept the offer there was no room to negotiate and it's not clear why you needed so much time to make the decision? Did they give you a date? Or did you give them the date?Maybe they felt like you were gonna bail and decided that they were moving to another candidate. It doesn't sound like you really wanted the job in which case you dodged a bullet. Why did it take you so long to respond??? Was there a legit reason? Overall it feels that things are changing quickly in favor of employers.

Brandie121·Mar 11, 2023

They sent the offer on a Thursday. Rescinded on a Tuesday. I'm not sure about you but if I'm about to give my time and energy to a corporation, I would at the very least need a week to consider that decision. I do not at all think I "took too long" to respond. But I did state that I wanted people's thoughts and that is your thought so that's fine.

Sigrid209·Mar 11, 2023

The economic picture has changed. That’s the lesson here. What kind of job is this out of curiosity. Depending on the field it might be more competitive than it used to be in which case employers now have the upper hand. The employer showed their upper hand when they refused to increase the salary. The negotiaton ended right then. It sounds like you wanted to wait a week just to show them you could and it backfired. They lost interest as soon as you declined the initial offer.Generally speaking in negotiations where the other party refuses to budge from the start and there is competition, it’s a sign they have a strategy and are dropping out quickly. This happens for example in the real estate market when buyers lowball sellers in a hot market. Low ballers know there is a likelihood the offer will be rejected but they are not interested in winning the house but “getting a deal”. You were lowballed precisely because they weren’t that interested in you as a person, they were looking for a “deal”. You missed this important signal.The types of employers that don’t move when you ask for more money are not that interested period. To them you were a number, not a prize. So they moved on when you acted like you wanted more than what they were willing to pay. To the next candidate. There was a mismatch of expectations here.It sounds like you weren’t crazy about the job - you never mention anything other than wanting more money - so it was no big loss for you. For the employer since you didn’t give them a specific date they assumed you had ghosted them and moved to the other candidate.

Lin183·Mar 11, 2023

It sounds like they gave no response when you told them you needed a week to think about it. That strikes me as really odd. It's also odd to me that they didn't give you a timeline for making a decision. Recent offers I've gotten have had a line saying something like 'please sign by this date otherwise we reserve the right to rescind this offer'- is it possible you didn't see this? Regardless, I find this to be really poor communication on their part, and I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Without knowing much, it does sound like you dodged a bullet if this is how they "communicate".

Georgetta127·Mar 11, 2023

Unfortunately, I think if you need a week to decide on an offer from a company, it is best to let them know in advance. I do think most companies would feel uncomfortable with that (again, unfortunately) and would probably tell you that they need to know sooner. Even when you come to an agreement and have a formal offer to sign, you are usually only given about 2-3 days to sign.They probably have at least one, if not more, candidates in the wings that they're keeping on standby, and don't want to lose to other companies over the course of a week. Also, every day you wait to reply probably makes them feel like you are more and more unhappy with the offer. Hiring an unhappy employee who feels undervalued from the get-go is going to be a big hurdle for the company to jump over. Another thing is they probably think you are interviewing with/negotiating with other companies (even if you aren't) and they are not your first choice and you're stalling.I don't think any of this is your fault at all, and all your wants/expectations seem very reasonable to me...however I don't think companies operate this way on their end. I'm very sorry and I hope something better comes along soon for you.

martasegalblock·Mar 11, 2023

I'm sorry this happened to you. Hopefully, it wasn't a job you really wanted. My guess is that they were in a hurry and had two candidates they were more or less equally interested in. When you asked for more money and then didn't let them know by Monday, they probably decided it would be better to go with the next candidate, assuming that you wouldn't take the job. They wanted to get the process moving. In the future, I would make sure to indicate excitement (Thanks for considering my counter-request. I'm still really excited about the job even though you can't meet it) and put a specific date on when you'll tell the (I need a little time to think about this. Can I let you know by Monday COB?) so that there's no confusion. Everything is a lesson for next time.

Jessie192·Mar 11, 2023

Seems to be a really tough job market right now. :(

Ramona123·Mar 12, 2023

The ball is back in employers' courts now, and they know it. The key question is did they give you a deadline when you got the initial offer or when they responded to your counteroffer?That's not to say don't negotiate, but if you come in too hard, they'll move on to the next candidate. When they came back saying the offer was firm, it was clear: take it or leave it. You could always try to negotiate for other things.They expected to hear back from you that Monday. When they didn't, they moved on to the next person. I'm not sure what your situation is, but I'm assuming it came up in the interview phase if you'd be able to start right away or if you'd need to give notice. Sounds like you might have dodged a bullet. We don't have enough of the details to say that for sure though.

iAyori·Mar 13, 2023

Early next week is Monday or Tuesday. Wednesday is mid week, Thursday and Friday is end of the week. You didn’t get back with the early in the week so they moved on to the next candidate. Next time be very clear on the date and day you plan to get back to them. Recruiters and hiring managers don’t want to put themselves into the waiting game with one candidate who is likely waiting for another better offer when they have so much talent that is looking to take the job. The power has shifted to employers with so much top talent being laid off across tech.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

This actually makes sense! Thank you for your input.

Ruthie89·Mar 13, 2023

I once had an offer rescinded, and I was devastated. It turned out that a candidate (a friend of the founder) who previously turned them down had changed their mind. About a month later, two senior staff members with whom I had interviewed were fired by this person. You definitely are better off - this is not a stable sounding place.

sallyd·Mar 13, 2023

If they had other candidates they were interested in and you didn't accept their offer but clearly wanted higher, they may just have wanted to move quickly on the other candidates. If you see it from their position it might have sounded like you're waiting on a better offer from somewhere else. That's your right, but someone else might have shown more enthusiasm so they don't want to wait and miss them. Don't take it personally.

ashleylfolsom·Mar 13, 2023

I definitely understand your frustration. That said, as I’ve been interviewing and receiving offers, I’ve noticed companies wanting answers within 48 hrs. In one case, I received the offer on a Wednesday, and worked with the recruiter to see if I could get back to them on the following Monday vs Friday. She said that was totally fine, but later I noticed the offer had an expiration date of Friday. In that instance, I double checked with the recruiter to make sure I was still ok to respond on Monday, and they confirmed that was fine. In another where I was told a counter wasn’t possible, I asked them when they would like my response by, and they also gave me 48 hrs. I think 48 hrs is currently the norm, and if you would like more time, asking specifically if you can get back to them by this date vs a general timeline would be best going forward.Also, if it’s a start up or smaller business, they move faster than most and would expect you to do the same. I like to think everything happens for a reason, so in that case, assume you were meant for something greater.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Thank you so much, Ashley!

latoyaanderson·Mar 13, 2023

Sounds like you dodged a bullet and you did nothing wrong. At the end of the day it is their job to be clear about when they need a response, and how urgent they need someone. As somone else wrote, it sounds like they wouldn't have taken even giving 2 weeks notice to your current employer into account. And, they probably would've rescinded anyway because you wanted to negotiate (as you should). Unlike some of these other comments that are blaming you, what probably actually happened is that someone else who initially didn't want the job suddenly became available, whom they probably know, and found any excuse to let you go. That company did not see your value and you deserved better on all fronts. I'm sorry this happened but don't ever stop demanding your value. PS, if a company won't negotiate then that is a massive red flag.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Thank you so much, Latoya. You don't understand how much this perspective and hearing it from a fellow (iykyk) means! Thanks again.

latoyaanderson·Mar 14, 2023

(Yes yes!) Agreed. Just because the economic climate has changed does not mean that employees should give their power away, nor that we should be sympathetic to their "economic issues". We don't know their situation and that's not our job to know. It's our job to ensure we make the right decision (which means allowing ourselves the time to decide) before taking on a new role. Just like it's business for them when they lay off people via email, text, etc. its business as potential employees to take a couple of days to weigh our options.

graceturner·Mar 13, 2023

Did they give you an offer (focusing or equivalent)? Or an email?Either way, def write a thorough Glassdoor review to help others - this is unacceptable

graceturner·Mar 13, 2023

Docusign not focusing*

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

It was actually just a regular email. Not even a PDF. A regular email that you'd send anyone.

JocelynD·Mar 13, 2023

First I am sorry this happened, it is always stressful to navigate these things. In reading your summary and the comments, two themes are emerging 1) you dodged a bullet; 2) your communications were ambiguous. My take is that it is actually BOTH-- you don't want to work for a company that sees you as a commodity AND you should have named a specific date to follow up by and done so. I also want to highlight that you negotiating was a very good thing and you should feel proud of yourself, don't stop advocating for your worth, ever.Consider this a cheap lesson from a company that you wouldn't have wanted to work at anyway and just play it out differently next time!

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Thank you so much, Jocelyn! I appreciate your input and I understand what you mean. Thank you.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Also, it was my first time ever trying to negotiate and it kind of made me a little discouraged to do it again going forward so I'm very grateful for your response. Thank you.

KateLowry·Mar 13, 2023

I disagree with the comments here that are blaming you - negotiating is standard, and so is asking for 1-2 weeks to consider a job. This company does not sound like one I’d want to work for.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Thank you so much for your input, Kate!

ChristinaSelk·Mar 26, 2023

I have to disagree that taking 1-2 weeks to consider a job offer is standard. Even when the market was very hot and in favor of candidates, 72 hours was standard. When candidates would ask for more time, we would extend the offer sometimes up to a week, but TBH most of the time when someone asks for more time, they end up declining the offer. When someone asks for more time to think about an offer, I am already starting my backup planning for the silver-medalist candidate.

athenedavidowski·Mar 13, 2023

I’m very sorry this happened to you. I do want to play devils advocate and mention that I would have said in the email on Friday that I would respond by Monday morning no later than 12:00PM (my time zone). I do not think it is fair you left it open ended and still didn’t respond by Tuesday. Monday/Tuesday is early next week. They may have felt ghosted. I think it’s a huge lessons learned here to be very specific and to respond in a timely manner. To your other comment if you needed two weeks, most companies understand that need. They also have things to do to get you up and going so the sooner you accept the sooner they can get you onboarded; that usually takes two weeks. Again, I am sorry this happened to you. I think it’s a lessons learned and I appreciate you sharing so that others can learn and anticipate this happening and how to remove the roadblock.

Brandie121·Mar 13, 2023

Thank you for your input!

maggiewolff·Mar 13, 2023

In my experience, I generally know going into the final interview how much I want the job or not. I understand wanting to take time to make sure you're making the right decision, especially if the salary isn't quite what you were hoping for, but a week seems like a long time. Haven't you been thinking this over since you started interviewing with them? What would taking a week tell you that you don't already know at this point? Another concern on their end, given that you asked for "much higher than the position called for", is that the role isn't at the seniority or technical level of what you're looking for and you might be bored or unhappy in the role. Plus depending on how mismatched the salary was, they might assume you'll continue interviewing elsewhere in pursuit of that salary. So basically, you'd be a "flight risk" if you came on board. Hiring and onboarding is expensive and time consuming and they don't want to do it more than they have to. They also might have other candidates who are just as good or close enough in skills/experience, and their salary expectations might be better aligned, and the company doesn't want to wait too long and miss out on those candidates. I'm curious - did they ask about salary expectations or share their salary range at any point prior to making an offer? Also what percent more were you asking for? My understanding is 5-10% more is reasonable, but candidates asking for 15-20% or more indicates a possible misalignment on leveling and things like that and can be a cause for concern on their end.

Addie173·Mar 13, 2023

I'm horrified by some of these responses and would encourage people blaming you to ask themselves whether or not they would tell a man he shouldn't have negotiated or took to long to respond to an offer because he wanted a few days to think about it. They would not, and this company likely would have responded differently to a male candidate trying to negotiate his salary. As a few people have said, negotiation is normal and so is taking a few days to consider an offer. Companies lowball candidates specifically because they expect them to negotiate. You did nothing wrong, and I know it stings, but you likely dodged a bullet. This company does not care who they hire - they want someone in seat as fast as possible for as little money as possible. Companies like that are not long term places and often have very high turnover.

athenedavidowski·Mar 14, 2023

I think it’s the way the OP went about it, her gender is not a factor. She does have a right to negotiate. However, she was told by the new company no and then it was left very open ended for everyone. I don’t think you should be trashing the company. This current climate, there’s 400+ applicants per role. This is not a time to play games and I think the OP was not clear in needing a week to think on it. She said early next week, which is Tuesday. I would have done the same thing as what the company did and move on to another candidate. The company may have felt she really didn’t want it. I have gotten offers I didn’t want and I take till the afternoon to make sure my no is right. It usually is, I think that’s the other lesson here for the OP.

Addie173·Mar 14, 2023

The current job market is a reason for bad behavior by companies during the hiring process, not an excuse. I don't even know what company this is and am not trashing them at all - companies that hire like this usually do have high turnover, that's just reality. If an employer is truly interested in a candidate, they should give them time to think about it. I've had companies give me a full week to think about it, and even if I don't take all that time, I appreciate it. During my last job search, I even had a company give me 2 weeks to decide because I was considering two offers. Not giving candidates time to think is very one sided and I would never want to work for someone who can't be bothered to give me time to make a major decision like this. Gender absolutely was a factor - it always is during a negotiation. While it's disappointing that the company did this, it's more disappointing to see members of a professional community that is supposed to be a supportive place for women blaming her for a company that clearly does not value candidate experience. Women are less likely to negotiate offers, and when we do, we ask for less money than our male peers. The responses to OP are a snapshot of why this happens, even other women jump to blame us!!!

Sigrid209·Mar 14, 2023

This is not right sorry. No one wins if you don’t learn from mistakes. As most people have commented, in a job market where hundreds of people are desperate to get one job, when the employer says NO to the counter offer you need to make a decision fast. They know there are literally hundreds of people looking for a job. They will take ANY job.It’s not a matter of blame it’s a matter of understanding supply and demand. When the employer realized the OP wanted a lot more $ they said no. That was the end of the conversation. Take it or leave it. This is clearly the type of employer who was not open to negotiate. It takes two to tango. One party not negotiating = there was no negotiating. It’s delusional to think there was some grand conspiracy. They. Said. NO. I am on several developer subreddits - most of whom are male - and they are taking jobs that pay less. Many employers are doing this. This is not about gender it’s about reality. The OP chose to believe there was a negotiation going on. They moved on to the next person. This isn’t 2021. They had already said no.The OP has not shared with us if she ACTUALLY wanted the job. To me it sounds like she didn’t. But she was upset when the employer decided to move on.Soon I will be in the position to hire people and salary aside if I offer someone a job and get the sense they don’t want it, assuming there were interviews already, it’s a turn off. No employer wants to hire a person who thinks the job is beneath them or who will be looking for a job soon for salary reasons. It’s a waste of the employer’s time. It’s childish and out of touch with the reality of so many people laid off to think that the world revolves around us. It doesn’t. Telling people to ignore reality is not good advice, sorry.

kaitlynbreuil·Mar 13, 2023

IMO, it seems they needed to fill the position immediately and probably were looking for a candidate ready to start ASAP (as their email mentioned). I try not to take things personal or make work decisions too emotional. It's all business. I exchange a service for money. Either I'm okay with the money being offered for my services or I'm not. I agree with the sentiment that thinking about it for a week doesn't seem right, it's not a marriage proposal (and people are quicker to say yes or no to marriage in 2 minutes lol). I would also be thrown off by the lack of enthusiasm or urgency to give them a response if I was the hiring manager. Maybe you were just not that into it, but after the long, tolling interview process I know whether I want the job or not. Meditate on why you need that long, and know that companies have business needs, either you're up to filling those needs or not.

reneejones·Mar 13, 2023

I agree with @martasegalblock. It's definitely a lesson and I'd say it's one to hold onto regardless of economic picture. By the time you get to offer stage, you should already have the internal conversation of what you'll do if your 'minimum salary' isn't met. Are you willing to sacrifice because the company is so great or are you willing to walk away? In this situation, they didn't give you 'options' to consider over the weekend. They said "take it or leave it" and ideally, you'd have your answer at that moment so you both can move forward. In needing more time, you can't expect them to wait a week while you decide if you want to take the offer and work there (that is something you would already have mulled over). The best response is what Marta said, which was to stay excited and then tell them you love the team and just need the weekend to decide and you'll let them know by xyz time on Monday. That's respectful and considerate of everyone. In their defense:It would be reasonable for them to expect to hear from you on Monday. By not communicating on Monday OR Tuesday, it gives the impression you'd made your decision and just didn't bother to let them know. That can put a damper on their excitement about you, showing you may not be a good communicator or collaborator once you're on board. OR, they also may have felt you'd be settling for the salary...knowing you wanted more...you'd be more likely to leave in a few months for a job that pays what you want, and they're not willing to take that risk. Either way, it's clear they made the decision for you and decided to move forward with the candidate they felt were a lesser risk. In your defense:they could have responded to you on friday to give you a deadline and say that they were on a timeline to hire and needed your answer by Monday at noon. The tone of their email to you was a little passive-aggressive which says a little about the company. To say your salary request was higher than the position 'called for' is a micro-aggression and red flag and you may have dodged a bullet with regards to their culture and how they value employees. If this was your dream job, I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you. But genuinely know that everything happens for a reason and you'll land where you're supposed to be - and valued with the salary you deserve. Just make sure you take into consideration the needs/expectations of both sides and communicate and set expectations so you're all setup for a successful interaction. Good luck!

Brynn203·Mar 14, 2023

Red flag 101. I know you need a job so badly. But a place like this doesn't value what you bring to the table. Be glad that you are not in a company with a culture that tells people that their "asking wage is much higher than the position called for". The polite thing to say is that your "asking wage is higher than our budget for this position".

Brandie121·Mar 16, 2023

I totally agree with the wording!

Tory167·Mar 15, 2023

Like some others have said, I think you dodged a bullet here. IMO, unless a company has a very transparent compensation structure which they are willing to share with candidates with their offer, not being open to negotiating is a red flag on its own. It seems to me like getting someone at the salary they wanted was more important than getting a candidate they wanted. As another commenter said, these places often have high turnover and rarely invest in their employees. I do think candidates should be given time to consider offers, although unfortunately it's not always something companies are willing to extend, especially when the job market favors employers. The only thing I would have done differently here is to give them a specific day when I would respond by, and overshoot by a day if I'm unsure. So in your situation, if I knew I wanted the weekend and possibly another day or two, I would have asked if I could consider the offer until Tuesday or Wednesday. But even if you had done that, there's no guarantee they would have been open to it. I'm sorry you went through this and even though you probably did dodge a bullet, it sucks. Hang in there! You'll find a company that is interested in YOU and willing to have a conversation about salary/give you some time to make a decision in order to get you on board!

Brandie121·Mar 16, 2023

Thank you so much, Tory! Your input it appreciated.

jeriessagof·Mar 17, 2023

You dodged a bullet. Watch the video in this post - your situation hits 2 of the 3 red flags discussed. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shodewan_redflags-newjob-activity-7042339114196598784-_Eyx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

lainelewis·Mar 18, 2023

It's a big red flag in itself. If they can't give you time to think about a life changing decision, then how great are they in the people game. It's so hard to find companies with real leaders. And to other responses, I agree that in the future, ask if xxxx day would be ok to get back to them by to have a goal for you and for them. One thing to always think about (and this applies to everything in life). If someone doesn't have information, they will assume information, knowingy or unintentionally. Don't leave that door open. Even when you don't know what to say to someone, a simple reply letting someone know you got it and you'll get back to them is usually sufficient enought avoid others making wild assmptions. And for a more zen response. This is just you being on the path to landing at the right place for you. Stay positive and confident in yourself as you move forward. Best of luck!

nicgreen02·Mar 26, 2023

When hiring, one of the things I would look for was enthusiasm about a role and whether it seemed to have the right balance of ability to do the work + growth opportunity over time. I also tried to narrow to the top two candidates - who was strongest internally, and externally. When you get down to the offer stage, it's a balance of timing all around. I can understand the company's hesitation if they were unsure whether you wanted the role and perhaps worried that it was below the level you were hoping for - in my early hiring, I had higher turnover than I wanted after 'overhiring' - then I shifted to focusing more on mentoring because we weren't at a size or stage yet that would appeal to candidates who wanted to see a certain type of structure or salary opportunity in place. Anyway as time passed they may also have been thinking about not wanting to lose the alternate top candidate for whom this opportunity may have been more of a progression in their career.

Sharon187·Mar 26, 2023

I think it's a really tough job market and you should not have made them wait and you gave them as many red flags as they gave you. Unless it was offensively low of course and then you should have said no immediately.

PeggieArvidsonCoach·Mar 27, 2023

I've pulled offers for similar reasons (with the input of the hiring team). Why? when you ask for 70 and they have a budget of 47 (not sure where I'm getting those numbers) they know you are too highly skilled for the position - odds are you're going to be looking for another job while you're there and maybe even biding your time till that other offer comes in. (It happens). Plus neither of you set a specific date for your reply - which is odd in my opinion. "early next week" is very vague and to be honest, you had the offer for more than a week (prior to your counter included) so they probably figured you weren't that into them - which is sounds like you weren't. In fact, they should have let you know at the pre-screen that you were significantly above their budget so you could have both moved on. The hiring team wants someone who is EXCITED to work for them and you can't blame them.Hiring teams can be VERY selective in the current market. A year ago, candidates were constantly countering offers (not within 30K but still) and now with so many people at all levels and all industries out of work, the tables have turned and it's tough to be a candidate.Still, I'm sorry this happened!

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