Why is so hard to hire Womxn Engineers?

pattysmith·Oct 16·10 replies

Would love to hear ya'lls opinions here as I'm trying to learn more about what people say and what are the actual real problems on this topic. I'm personally not in a position to be hiring anyone at this point, but I've listed below what I've heard from many well-intentioned people who are looking to hire (including my comments/questions underneath):1 - "There are simply fewer womxn engineers out in the world."...people say this all the time. I don't have the readily available statistic, but there are definitely more womxn engineers out in the world than people realize since I know too many great engineers who still have a hard time finding a job. What are these hiring managers missing that would enable them to find amazing womxn engineers?2 - "I've come across some great candidates but they're too junior for my startup needs."...I hear this constantly, and the subtext here is that the startup is unwilling to train more junior engineers. To some extent I can understand this argument if a startup is so small that there might actually be no space for mentorship. At the same time, the tradeoff these startups are making is either 1) lack of diversity; or 2) spending money/time to find and hire their desired talent (see point 3). How do we mitigate this concern?3 - "It's expensive (in time, money or both)."...if points 1 & 2 above are true, then market dynamics would indicate that yes, it's important to put your resources where your mouth is if you want to hire diverse talent. Question on the candidate side: how can we enable diverse talent to get compensated for their role in this equation?Anyone have additional responses to add or thoughts on any of the above?Sending ❤️.

Iynna

iynna·Oct 16·1 reply

Iynna

iynna·Oct 16·1 reply

These are really interesting points! And as I read this I also noticed this https://elpha.com/posts/xggslt3x/hiring-for-senior-software-engineers @yasminnozari is hiring so perhaps you had some recommendations for her!

yasminnozari·Oct 16·1 reply

Thank you!! Yes please share candidates!

pattysmith·Oct 16

The couple folks I have in mind are searching for more mentorship in their next role (probably wouldn't be Senior by your JD 😬) and are generally more front-end by experience. LOL hence point #2 above! @yasminnozari - how are you navigating that balance in your hiring process?

lita81gr·Oct 16

I’ve been working in the defense and space industries the past few years, and it’s quite obvious there even for non engineering roles. I haven’t been a hiring manager yet, but I have worked with some and at least when it comes to the resumes they get, there just seems to be an obvious lack of female candidates, which is sad, but eventually translates to the lack of diversity at the office. Not sure if it’s because of lack of applicants, or recruiters are not doing it right, but it’s sad not having options. At the same time, as an example, recently my team was looking for someone and I offered to check with a local Women in tech group that has hundreds of members, only one person messaged me about it and then never sent me her updated resume even though she said she was interested 🤷🏻‍♀️ I don’t know what to tell ya

micheleheyward·Oct 17·1 reply

This is a multi-layered answer. The assumption many have is to market jobs to women like they do men. Instead, find out how women especially engineers review jobs with employers. I agree the mindset of there aren't many women engineers is popular and used as a scapegoat for too many people. The numbers are easily accessible from National Science Foundation.From 2004 to 2014, approximately 40k, black, Latina and indigenous women graduated with STEM degrees. I graduated with my engineering degree in 2000. At this rate you're looking at 1M underrepresented women with STEM degrees...PERIODT!Here's why I think employers are getting it wrong even further. This is how I look for a job. I for one will go to LinkedIn to see how many black employees at all levels and departments/BU/divisions have this employer listed (current & former). I may reach out to some of them to learn about the employer's culture. I'll look at the website for signs of black employees. For me it is NOT about the job! It's truly about how I'll be treated.In my startup, I've surveyed my community on how employers can RETAIN them (underrepresented women in STEM). If employers discussed more about their CULTURE, how to advance in the org and have benefits which meet the needs of more women, they would struggle less in getting applicants and retaining talent.But companies will have to do work and spend money...oh and time they say they don't have in order to create a diverse employee base.

Christia42·Oct 19·1 reply

100% agree on the point of marketing of the roles to men. I have a friend who was hiring engineers for a startup and increased the applicants to 50%/50% men and women by changing the wording of the job post! This involved a lot of research, rewriting, reviewing, and asking others to evaluate it, but it was amazing what a difference this made.

jessicachu·Oct 20

Could you share what some of the learnings were on changing the wording of the job post to be more effective in attracting womxn engineering talent? We are two female co-founders and are very much committed and interested in finding these talented people to join our team.

robotgrrl·Oct 17

From my viewpoint, it's because the companies aren't willing to bring on a candidate who doesn't have prior knowledge in the field even though they may be energetic, curious, smart, and talented. The companies don't want to be bothered with training / re-training anyone. There's so many people that are qualified, but those who do the hiring are too risk-adverse or not confident in the training process. Essentially you have to have "done the job" to be able to qualify for the job to get it.

Edris199·Oct 19

I know a lot might not get hired because of ~ "culture fit ", especially if the "culture" is tech bros in their 20s and 30s.I am personally in a team of nearly all white men in their 40s. They are nice, but It’s hard to "become work friends" with them because we have little in common.

alexcia

samez·Oct 20

alexcia

samez·Oct 20

Speaking as a mid career lady developer, there's just less women in tech with years of experience under their belt. Alot of women graduate with STEM degrees or from coding bootcamps work in the industry to for 2 years and then move out of the industry. So when your looking for candidates with over 2 years of experience there just wayyy fewer than there are men. The sad part is alot of women don't want to work in the industry *because* of the lack of diversity and rampant sexism they have to deal with. If you want more women developers you need to actively search for them, if you hire on autopilot than your going to get only men because of the sheer numbers game. The good part is once you have a good amount of women developers on your team your company will become alot more attractive to female candidates, as we have so few opportunities to work on a gender balanced team. I would check out powertofly.com, maybe elpha's job board and other specialized hiring sites for women with experience.Side rant: Alot of marketing is advertised to *get* women in tech but there is far fewer resources out there to *keep* women in tech